Originally posted by LoktofeitOriginally posted by DrakynnOriginally posted by LoktofeitOriginally posted by DrakynnI believe the trinity has existed since PnP RPGs but the aggro mechanic started in MMORPG's to make up for the fact there was no GM overseeing every NPC action/reaction.A good GM in PnP games was nto out to kill the palyers but lead them on adventure,with a good GM a party would not die except for either really bad luck or stupidity on the players part,
There are exceptions like games like Paranoia where the game and other players are out to expose/kill the other players or Call of C'thulu where survival for as long as possible was the goal because it was accepted death or isnanity was almost inevitable.But these games were not designed for long periods of play,by logn I mean over several days,weeks or months.
You could certainly taunt in these games if you were palying a "tanky" role and you would certianly charge in first to keep the hostiles off the party emmbers who couldn't take many hits but it was up to the GM to decide how successful these actions were.
In AD&D it was common for a GM to make you roll against the targets intelligence to see if an attention grabbing move worked and player actions during combat did indeed decide who the enemy would target.You could do allt he taunting you wanted for isntance and it might work until that mage cast a lightning bolt or fireball that would make a reasonbly intelligent enemy see him as the main threat.
The trinity is just a simplified version of ancient military roles of Offence,defence and support filtered down into a few roels and mechanics,so technically existed before even PnP rpgs.
You don't see the distinct difference between someone actively working toward baiting an enemy that otherwise wouldn't bother with them, and mechanics that make the enemy by default automatically swing wildly at the least dangerous opponent in the encounter? What you describe is the former. The trinity is the latter.
You didn't read where I said aggro mechanics were introduced my MMORPG's to amke up for the fact there was no GM overseeing every action?So no I do not beleive the lack of aggro mechanic means there were no tanks,healers or dps before MMORPGs there was just not aggro mechanic to make them even more defined to make it easier for a computer program to oversee thousands of such itneractions occuring simultaneously without the need of human oversight and decision making.
I did read it. No one said those roles or tactics didn't exist before. Here's the OP's statement:
For the Trinity to exist,buy atlantica gold, there needs to exist game mechanics of "Aggro" and "Taunt". These, as far as I know, never existed as game mechanics in old pen n paper Dungeons and Dragons rulebooks. So even though you may have used tactics similar, it was not in fact the Trinity.
Yes, computers replaced DMs. What you are saying is that the PvE combat systems of UO, AC and EVE Online don't exist. Taunt and aggro has nothing to do with making it easier for a computer to manage AI. They were created to both support the role specialization the MMOs were introducing and to compensate for differences between the virtual world and the real world, collidable objects being the primary one.
I see what you and the OP are saying.The roles existed but it's aggro management that makes those roles into the Holy Trinity.I just don't totally agree,I think we've always tried to keep NPC attention from weaker members and healers by having those with more armor and health take damage in games where teamwork to overcome the environment is the goal.Hell I even did it with singlepalyer CRPGs where you controlled a team of adventurers.SO I've always thoguht int erms of damage soakers,dps and support whne playing RPGs.
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